Officially ban racial slurs and other forms of bigotry?

[Kain]

[GUARD!AN]

For the love of Mike... *smacks head* I can't believe you even put this up for debate. Its like you are running everything by committee. If you want a little decency on your server you need to make a stand and say this far and no further.

You end up debating whether or not you should ban an annoying jerk like Vaeder when it could have been handled by an admin with some initiative. Instead you make an actual issue out of it. I don't mean to be insulting by this but I can't think of more concise way to say it. Grow some balls and say no.

Believe me, there are a lot of things I don't put up for debate. We are trying something a little different with this clan though.

A lot of this is going to be learning as we go, because no clan this large has had such a loose chain of command before that I can remember.

I fully see what you are saying, and I have no problem taking a stand and just saying "fuck you all, this is the way it is going to be". But more so than I believe in everyone showing respect to eachother, I first and foremost believe in myself showing respect to everyone, and to me that encapsulates considering and listening to everyone's thoughts when making a decision like this.

This topic and veaders topic were highly debatable. This one because Kera/Duo/Wafflz/etc were not actually being racist or bigoted when they yews the term (no offense guys but the free speech and "words don't mean anything" arguments are kind of lame), and veader because he had not actually broken any of tempest's rules, but many many people felt he should be removed from the server (which could imply that perhaps there needs to be more rules)

Tensor and I determined all the original rules and the foundation of the clan, but I feel that when making amendments to things we should listen to our members for as many things as we can.

And do realize that with the exception of this topic, the votes were not actually determining what the decision was, merely influencing them.

Just to clarify, I personally hate racism and am against MYSELF using such terms, and have never told anyone who does to stop, I do know they are doing it in jest. I guess I just didn't make that part very clear. The idea of this thread was to perhaps make rS seem more attractive to potential recruits if there wasn't a bunch of people calling them n***ers everytime they joined Impulse and used too many mines, or heck, stated an opinion.

[tens0r]

I hate the N word with a passion but I agree. There shouldn't be any censorship. Free country and so is Tempest/Impulse.

[MajorMajor]

Large clan with loose chain of command has been done before, Guard, it = lick

30 Person server = lick

There have been numerous occasions recently in which I've witnessed complaints about field spam. I've seen 4 jans placing fields.(sometimes my team sometimes not) And those complaining are absolutely right. Its ridiculous and impossible to get through in conjunction with the mine spam. You have no rules restricting it and it detracts from siege. It turns it into a game of shooting fish in a bucket.

Sorry to offend you with the comparison but the similarities are there.

Before anyone opens their mouth to say mine spam is a part of siege I'm not complaining about that. I'm talking about field spamming with massive numbers of jans happening more frequently than even a week ago.

I first and foremost believe in myself showing respect to everyone,

And you don't believe in requiring that of others? What is the point of believing that if you surround yourself with disrespectful jerks?

If you don't ban the yews of racial slurs because they

were not actually being racist or bigoted when they yews the term

are you then going to kick/ban someone when they say one and mean it? Or is that going to be debatable too?

Imagine someone saying "He really didn't mean it so you have no right to ban him." Someone else saying "Yes he did! Yes he did!" Lets have a big argument about whether the person meant it or not. It could go on for a week! And we'd still never know.

When Veader enters Tempest it is never long before many people start trading barbs with him or telling any admins present to kick or ban him. He hasn't used racial slurs but he is ridiculously annoying and disrespectful to others. There is consensus there. He is a problem, your problem, unless you enjoy the whining in which case he isn't.

If you are hoping to make rS more attractive to potential recruits you might want to start with better admining/admins. Tensor rage quitting and kicking everyone from Impulse doesn't exactly make one want to join. I've seen it twice. Admin abuse anyone? I wish he'd do that with Veader. It'd certainly be more helpful to you.

Since your current rules seem to allow for it I'm going to end my post with this:

I suggest you keep your wookiee Wafflz on his leash. I think that will sum up why you should not allow it.

[Turky]

Summary of MajorMajor's post:

Siege pubs are ~srs~ business.

~Turkey.

[tens0r]

I haven't rcon kick alled in ages

I'll do it today




And Major I don't think you should come here and just bitching. Shit's been going on since the forums started and since the start of siege. Just stfu and worry about your own clan and your own server. Because ours are doing just fine without your input.

[GUARD!AN]

And Major I don't think you should come here and just bitching. Shit's been going on since the forums started and since the start of siege. Just stfu and worry about your own clan and your own server. Because ours are doing just fine without your input.

No, major's input is welcome as much as anyone else's is.

[Kerafym]

Uh. Major's shit is TL;DR. From what I've raid (First post and first part of second post) you believe that Guardian (or whoever) should do whatever he wants with no input from the siege community, and your proof of this systems success was lick. lick is widely considered the biggest joke of a clan in siege's history. Everybody outside of the white named noobs thought they were horrible and had a horrible system of running things. Their server was shit, their members were shit, the clan was just shit, and yet they acted like they were the kings of siege because they could farm server population with their grossly oversized server.
If you really want to look at a clan ran by children, for children, than be my guest, but I'd honestly rather follow suit of more established guilds that were largely successful for a number of years rather than months, such as Heroic.

Oh, and by the way, Guard, why was my argument lame? I wasn't making excuses, that's what I honestly believe. Words don't bother me at all. Call me a wookiee, faggot, jew, cunt, kike, whatever. I don't care. Words themselves will never bother me. I think that anybody who lets words alone get to them is a fool.

[GUARD!AN]

Oh, and by the way, Guard, why was my argument lame? I wasn't making excuses, that's what I honestly believe. Words don't bother me at all. Call me a wookiee, faggot, jew, cunt, kike, whatever. I don't care. Words themselves will never bother me. I think that anybody who lets words alone get to them is a fool.

Sorry, guess I forgot to post it earlier. What I meant was, that although they mean nothing to you, they do mean something to someone. Granted I do believe that often times people take words too far and way too seriously, and those people should go fuck themselves (And I like to think I don't), I still believe that it shouldn't be the other extreme either, where some historically indecent words are overused and whored out. There are people who died to end racism and the yews of words like wookiee, the least we can do is honor that to SOME extent.

[GUARD!AN]

Large clan with loose chain of command has been done before, Guard, it = lick

30 Person server = lick

There have been numerous occasions recently in which I've witnessed complaints about field spam. I've seen 4 jans placing fields.(sometimes my team sometimes not) And those complaining are absolutely right. Its ridiculous and impossible to get through in conjunction with the mine spam. You have no rules restricting it and it detracts from siege. It turns it into a game of shooting fish in a bucket.

Sorry to offend you with the comparison but the similarities are there.

Before anyone opens their mouth to say mine spam is a part of siege I'm not complaining about that. I'm talking about field spamming with massive numbers of jans happening more frequently than even a week ago.

The massive number of jans I won't do anything about, I absolutely hated the jan limits of prior siege servers, too many people just don't get that if a team decides to do too many jans, it won't have enough firepower to kill the enemy team. A prime example is last night, when we did a 6's pug without a jan limit. I was on the offense against a team of 3 jans, and slowly they realized they just didn't have the sheer firepower to stop my team, and by the end of the game, had gone down to only 1 jan.

As far as shield spam is concerned, I pretty much leave that to the discretion of my admins, if they feel that the defense is placing too many shields too quickly and the shields far outnumber the amount of jans that there are, then they can take action.

I first and foremost believe in myself showing respect to everyone,

And you don't believe in requiring that of others? What is the point of believing that if you surround yourself with disrespectful jerks?

If you don't ban the yews of racial slurs because they

were not actually being racist or bigoted when they yews the term

are you then going to kick/ban someone when they say one and mean it? Or is that going to be debatable too?

Imagine someone saying "He really didn't mean it so you have no right to ban him." Someone else saying "Yes he did! Yes he did!" Lets have a big argument about whether the person meant it or not. It could go on for a week! And we'd still never know.

Since your current rules seem to allow for it I'm going to end my post with this:

I suggest you keep your wookiee Wafflz on his leash. I think that will sum up why you should not allow it.

I fully understand what you are saying, and that's exactly why I am against the yews of these slurs, because they are bound to get out of hand eventually, although they are arguably already out of hand. The problem is I cannot in good faith enforce a rule like this unless everyone is generally in agreement. And clearly everyone is not, as it isn't just Wafflz/Duo/Kera who feel they should be allowed to call everyone all kinds of racial slurs, many people feel that it is going a little too far to censor those kinds of words.

When Veader enters Tempest it is never long before many people start trading barbs with him or telling any admins present to kick or ban him. He hasn't used racial slurs but he is ridiculously annoying and disrespectful to others. There is consensus there. He is a problem, your problem, unless you enjoy the whining in which case he isn't.

If you are hoping to make rS more attractive to potential recruits you might want to start with better admining/admins. Tensor rage quitting and kicking everyone from Impulse doesn't exactly make one want to join. I've seen it twice. Admin abuse anyone? I wish he'd do that with Veader. It'd certainly be more helpful to you.

That's also why I posted a vote, because he really hasn't broken any of the established rules, and if we did it based on discretion, compare that to how we aren't going to ban Duo from Impulse cause he disrespects noobs. So based on rules or precedence or discretion, there really is no legitimate reason to ban him, other than people being annoyed by him.