Lift Laming

[GUARD!AN]

Turkey brings up an interesting issue that has plagued siege for quite some time.

Should there be some sort of punishment for lift laming/demoning it during a live game?

I have no idea what the punishment would be yet, but am curious what everyone thinks.

[LORD]

I suggest liftlamers should be spec-punished.
When sb do it first time- 1 minute of speccing
Second time 5- mins
Third ( its like being so dumb and do it again ) kick from game

[Turky]

keeping in mind of course, we are defining lift lame as any time that the defense ever calls the lift up, for any reason, to result in denying an attacking player access to the objective. that's mines, shields, just to camp (chewie or reborn boss w/e), any reason whatsoever. you could be up there for no reason at all.

Also given that we are taking away the benefit of the doubt as to whether the defender would have killed the guy on the lift if the defense were to let the attacker onto it. Taking the lift up loses you that alibi when you cheat the offense out of a chance to get the objective.

[tens0r]

I say punish unless they are demon.

[Sakke]

Guard, you of all people have got to have pulled it up by accident with +yews on. I know I have more than once.
Taking the lift up makes it just as impossible to go up as if you spammed golan blobs into the hangar door. And we don't forbid that. Defending from upstairs is just a weakening of the defence in my opinion. Spreading out the defence playing 3v4 og 4v5 in the hangar gives the attackers an advantage in my opinion. And a jan can disarm any defeder upstairs.
I don't see any reason to make rules about this.

[Turky]

Spreading out the defence playing 3v4 og 4v5 in the hangar gives the attackers an advantage in my opinion.

But calling the lift to prevent objective completion is an advantage for the defenders...

[GUARD!AN]

I'm still deciding my opinion on it, I have been on both sides plenty, so I know both the frustration of reaching a lift that has been called up and watching the entire enemy team spawn right next to you, and I know that accidents do happen (your jan with +yews example being the most prominent that happens to me quite a bit actually when I am knocked back).

I'm leaning towards this not really being enforced though. I think it might be a little too strict to enforce punishment regardless of circumstances, especially since siege has gotten along so long without any rules regarding this, and there have been plenty of victories for the offense even when TOP TIER players do it. (GT vs TD being the most prominent example, when the term demoning it was created).

And you also have to take into consideration the people that do it most, like for example, kera isn't actually going to let people punish him/self punish, and if he is vote kicked he might just crash the server, thus ending the pug. So is it worth it to try and punish lift lamers and sacrifice a perfectly good pug? Is winning really that important?

[tens0r]

The fact is you can't punish for it. Theres tons of gay things that you can't punish for and I think this is one of them.

Do you wanna start punishing people for Spamming? Selfkilling? Det killing? Pullthrowing? Rocket Spamming? Golan Spamming? People bitch about these EVERY day.

[Turky]

then I guess the least that can be done is to allow a legit votekick or two of that player.

and yews of weapons is separate from objective based things. what about laming the codes? we never made rules about that. it is a given that we don't do that, so why not make it a given that you can't take the lift up at the hangar objective without risking a consequence.

as I said it provides a double advantage for the enemy, they get to place a last line of defense up there (shield or mines), and also potentially get to stop an enemy from getting up while the rest of your team spawns to own them. awesome!

whatever, if you don't want this then we can just go back to "fuck you, we won that round, you called the lift up and kept our demo from getting up.

[Sakke]

People playing on tempest know how to play the game in most cases. That is why unwritten rules as no laming (bridge, codes, scepter, lifts) are all that is required. Name a serious pug with a code lame. Just one. We don't need to tell people no laming, for everyone knows not to lame, or they will jsut eb excluded from PUGs (not invited/picked).